Of course this is not about crossing Poodle types and Vieux Barbet..
But reading, learning and asking questions. It’s French? well…
Of course this is not about crossing Poodle types and Vieux Barbet..
But reading, learning and asking questions. It’s French? well…
When might makes right and survival of the fittest meet up..I wonder what happens then. My high school World history teacher, William Patrick Callahan ( he was Irish), told us, “if you don’t remember anything about what you learnt about Greek columns ( Ionic, Doric and??), those 2 concepts are all you need to remember about the past. I would say that would also be about the future….
Just for “fun” if that is what you can call it..I have been tapping on shoulders here and there in the Barbet world to see if. If? yes IF anything…well, I was not disappointed because: “nothing”..Now, I am not talking about the ones who are afraid to ask questions publicly, for fear of ridicule, because we all know we are supposed to know everything about a breed we are working on. However, in the Barbet world, being the way it has been, is certainly a challenge to wade through to get a semblance of coherence in anything said and /or done.
In other words, most Big Master race breeders, know it all. That’s all. They just know it all and have no reason to share any of their knowledge because it’s theirs, especially if you ask a question..indeed. They are certainly not in need of anything. Then, they tell you about breeding and color genetics and if they can’t even do that they will tell you hahaha hihihi that they have a farmer and a senorita type Barbet. Yes…left me speechless, but not for a long time.
Then, in another context, trying to get basic transparent info from another “leader”, well that was even worse. Of course, everyone who cannot say more than “like” disappears under the rug.We are talking about what goes on in the wings of power in a breed divided for 35 years in its home country with all the repurcussions abroad. So. Barbet history in 5″:Henry IV’s best friend had a Barbet. Napoleon had one too, it was socute. It is a rare breed that you can have one of,only if you pay enough money and your cv is acceptable.
We are into a very lucrative business which at some point may come to an end for those who have not a clue of what the breed stands for, other than €€££$$$$. My US history teacher would call it “galloping capitalism”.
We are making hay while the sun shines…Hey. As long as it’s called Barbet and it is status? I want one. Doesn’t matter what it looks like. It’s a Barbet and I have one now. That makes me great. Now I can show it all over to show people what I can do and how I am great with this breed. I can also show judges what I have and I have one so it is perfect to standard…( but of what??).
Standard you say? Well, we’re breeding for healthy %0 inbreeding, like you know? Low fat yogurt. Keep mixing the ingredients to get a new style, taste? Like specifications; upgrade, change the formula..that what goes in, comes out one way or the other or many others..It’s to the point where you are not really sure of what you see in the line-up. 6 different types in one litter? Rejoice! Who cares?! You have a unique specimen.. to show off with…. Did you even know the Barbet was not a couch potato? It has a working dog nose. A gundog… By work, I mean hunt. It has a history and a type that gave a standard that someone worked on for a reason . Who cares ?and anyway, a dog does not hunt with his head or his tail. Yes, I heard that.
A pig does truffles..so can a Barbet, but only if you pay a lot for it.
So I look around ( as little as possible) because it is getting scary out there, to see if there are anywhere any TRUE TO TYPE Barbets around. Historical type but not the Poodle ancestor bs.. you know the one Re-incarnated in the 80’s, by crossing mutts? I see one here and one there and I look at the pedigree and without seeing the photograph of the litter, I know there will be as many different types as breeds that went into that recipe. BUT, they are all cute and they are all Barbets that are a rare breed that we sell to elite customers who show a good cv.
So, I then look onto a forum of socutesonice dogs that look like just what I said above. This is where to protect oneself..I am censored..I know too much?
The breeders are backing their product that they put all their love into making new types and just for you. You have just bought a unique fine piece of art that I designed just for you, my socute customer. I am such a great breeder you will come and visit me every year so I can show everyone that I am sonice..I got to the top so fast, because I am so nice, and I am a breeder so I know. I will use a good bitch as long as she can produce so many different types with the same dog because he also can produce so many different types. Perfect match, eh.
I think that I did forget to repeat that all these breeders are working on the survival of this “old” French breed. It did not fit into the 5″ history of the breed that goes back into “ancient times”…
What I am sure I did not tell you is that, throughout the so organized Barbet system..there is no communication ( for fear of revealing a secret?) and little cliques who sell dogs and sadly very few who can tell you about the real breed in more than 5” flat, since we do not have time for that stuff. Well..the real breed is the one threatened with extinction and THOSE BREEDERS DO WORK TOGETHER AND HAVE FOR MANY YEARS…and they are not “just” breeders working for their Master race’s survival.
This is a bit of a follow up on breed clubs and their “work” for a breed they know very little about. They do know that they need you to believe in what they, professional breeders, are doing to help the breed called Barbet that they will tell you is so cute.What I am looking around at, is how litters are so diversified, meaning some will look like this and some like that, but very far from the true type of the Vieux Barbet..Even in France they are having a problem figuring it out these days.
All I can do as I have done for many years is be a whistle blower on these tactics of “We are the best and ignore the rest”. “We do what we want to your stupid history of the breed”.
“We are going to make only health tested dogs for anything type Barbets” that are pure( crosses) and as usual we are going to show the world how we doing it with statistics that are not complete, as said to scare people into only buying “their” perfect dogs…like you order a refrigerator.
I try to alert people and share the fact that there is a type and inform people and what happens?
Well…my information is censored! Of course it does not fit in the style of that page of that socutesonice forum …but does (alarmist) health info which should be discussed in Barbet preservation group, fit? especially when they can’T prove any of it?
As I said before and repeat, many who think they support the breed are contributing to its downfall. OK by me. I have my 5 generations under my roof as a museaum of arti-facts.
I am not pointing fingers at anyone specific at all, but protecting your own environment is contributing to the breed dying, in many cases , of your stupidity.
I am not going anywhere, and will continue to fight for the survival of the breed, as some of us ARE concerned with it, regardless of the “governing” authorities caring or not.If the Barbet is concerned. I am.
What my World history teacher would say about it? Probably something about
amnesia, dictators and useful idiots… as history goes in less than 5″.
I saw this this morning, and must say I am flabbergasted.
The MAIN reason the Barbet is dead in France is because of initiatives like this one supported by dangerous people..who have not got a clue as to what a Barbet is, for lack of any type of in-depth research on its origines and who base their pseudo knowledge on myths…and third hand heresay.
You don’t need to believe me..look around.
I thought France was the country of “freedeom of speech”…Charlie et al…long forgotten.
I have most of the breed archives in my possession ( many documents have been stolen off internet) and I have letters that show how the breed has been “managed” for 35 years. Club has done nothing, ever, for the breed and organizing shows is not working FOR a breed…
Very sad. This same action was done to me in 2012 by a couple from xxx supported by another couple of local breeders who did their best to attack and slander me, so I can say I have been there.
Now I don’t have to be friends with the person being attacked now, I think it’s a question of respect and tolerance and looking in the same direction for the survival of a breed just about dead in France, sadly so.
May it thrive abroad as it is. The Barbet is a great dog..
Vive le vrai Barbet.
Interesting how those most interested in the true history of the breed are foreign nationals.The person who wrote this below is Dutch, the one who has the most factual information is Polish and I am not French either. At one time in 2012, when I told the breed club in France that their history on the SCC site was a sight… for sore eyes, I was told by a board member it was going to be re-written in a factual way. Well, that along with lots of other changes at club, never happened and in the end the french breed club still does not even have a history…of the breed, that is.
Read the first part of the breed history, here. The rest will come, soon! It will be the meat-y part, with Grand Barbet de Buffon, not being so “grand“.
This site below, I started in 2007.
Barbet books are being written right left and center about how great the breed is. It is of course, nice for poeple to think that the Barbet is such an uncommon, fabulous breed. Unfortunately, the other side of the coin is much less shiny. Why has the breed never progressed in its home country? Good question. Suffice to look at what each wave of new breeders does to anyone else in their way.
The breed club since its beginning in 1980 has never documented any other information than disciplinary board actions against members/people and a very long tradition of insults, backstabbling and the likes. It is continued today as traditions are hard to change by some narcisstic breeders looking for fame and recognition for their deeds. People seem to be used to it, since no one bats an eyelash and just overlooks it.
The breed club does not have the majority of these official documents, nor any trace of any accomplishments to help the breed.
There are of course, blacklisted judges in many countries for many reasons ( mostly political as you would guess). So, the type that prevails in a show regardless of what the standard says is the one he or she is going to select according to what the well known breeder shows and quite regularly the dog has nothing to do with the standard.
I need to tell you about the Dutch Club show, which was a real delight…a wonderful and pleasant day. You want club spirit and nice people, well: that’s where you could find it!
Hoewever, I got sidetracked…
I have so many things to think about! I was given 5 books about Poodles and they are as precious to me as were the German books I have gone through looking for information about the breed. Several years ago when several of us were choring away on the history of the Barbet and we came to the same conclusion: what we were researching was poodle history so, re-inventing the wheel.
I have a huge book from the 1982, written in the USA. Guess who I found…
That leads me to think that it was not that long ago and IF there are Barbets today that look like Barbets in the 70’s, then there are also Barbets today with Wycliffe Timoteo the Best in show winner Poodle in their pedigree, that could tell us why we have such different looking dogs at shows, like in the Dutch show.Look at that nice bushy poofed out coat. You have of course seen that before!
In this book, there is also Blakeen and Apiele…a treasure for Barbets worldwide. The Barbet being a Griffon you can hardly compare them, can you?!
If you are here, you obviously know that many of us trying to get the poodle out the breed Barbet, do our best to bring down the size of the dog, hoping that at some point the standard will be dealt with properly to lower the official sizes, now that it is happening in real life.
What is counter-productive now is that some are claiming their dogs to be bigger, which is a bit strange as their size is incresing to please a Raspoutine of sorts.
Here if I wanted to… I could let Guyguy’s coat grow and grow and let it get thick, be super friendly to a judge who would automatically add 2+ cms to his size and make him just standard for breeding purposes…eh oui, ma brave dame.
In his case, he would go from 59.5 to 61 or even 62 with a nice thick matted coat*…Arrrrrgh! He is tall enough and therefore it is easy not to want to be photographed with him, eh?
Now of course, you can add centimeters by adding a thick layer of an ungroomed matted coat and the the sky is the limit. Some judges working to please and disregarding the standard are collusive to the act…that being nothing new. They will write just about anything to keep judging at shows and please.
In passing, please do not blame any of the overgroomed matted dogs on RT Georgii as he was a teacher and not a professional groomer during his working life and he well paid his groomer to deal and overdeal with his dogs.
* remember, I save coats and hair, you never know when it can come in handy!
Regardless of who one is in the chain of command and who their references are or not, everyone in their own language says stuff, Googles the translation of all the others’ words, sentences and constructions and with their wrong translations takes decisions they can’t explain. Now it would only seem logical that people in “charge” of our rare breed be able to show their competences in the matter and it is generally far from the case. Poeple want to shine their own production up so their studs are promoted and used whilst always referring to how great they are.( and of course sell dogs). In the Barbet world, saying most don’t communicate, is a major understatement. It is not a question of helping each other with a common objective of survival of a breed threatened with extinction, but promoting a breed that was created in 1980. Rare, yes, but not threatened with anything but stupidity. It’s only the “others’s” dogs who are sick, crazy, inbred and what else you can possibly come up with. One country has already destroyed the breed with now very few births and others are working hard to keep up. This is another example of : “Is this the party to whom I’m speaking?” Yes, Gilda Radner lives on. This is a letter I have just sent to someone and it resumes the situation in our Barbet world..
Good morning xxxx,
I am glad you got the results you wanted yesterday and am sorry to have asked you questions just before your show.
I will repeat as clearly as possible so as not to create a language barrier.
My original question was: Did YOUxxxx, write the report on the symposium as it is not signed? Yes or no?
We did not meet because I would remember you. Then, you said something about seeing so many BB again…which you then said you had been to WDS in Paris. We didn’t meet there either. Were you already on the board of the club?
Then you asked me if I was referring to a tremor report. Am I right? It is important we stay on track and not get sidetracked.
You said :That “someone” you have talk to was wrong. If you have something to say about it you will write to the swedish barbetclub.
Who are you thinking of when referring to this? 10 people involved in writing this tremor report, right? So all of the club committee along with the Swedish Kennel club, so the SKC is part of the 10? We need to be real precise about facts when we have them AND USE THEM against people and dogs. Right?
You represent the BB club. I am addressing you as I did not know who you were before. NOR did I bring up the subject!
I gather that if someone is wrong, then someone is right? So, who is right and who is wrong, here and about what?
Then you say everyone wrote the tremor report which I have not asked you anything about……BUT I will tell you that when my students say “we all did it, it means no one is taking responsibility for what was done, and generally the work was poor. You know the joke: How many people does it take to change a lightbulb? One to hold it and 9 to turn the ladder…
Now why should I write to someone or people who are not identified to talk about something I asked you personally and you are not answering? I think that is a bit scary to not even be able to communicate on a simple subject in a lingua franca without the subject being distorted. Right?
So you say write to them and then you say Well, not everyone there, as I told you, if you write to firstname.lastname@example.org and email@example.com everyone who work for the barbetclub in Sweden get the mail automatic send to their own e-mail, it’s a collect mail for those two team, it’s that two mailadress you should use, I promis you it will be right then!
Not everyone there where what???????????If you can’t answer a simple question about a simple matter why would I ask them?Them who????
Who are you talking about when you refer to those 2 teamS? Teams of what?
You are extremely confusing. This all started with a simple question on a simple matter that required a yes or a no!
My conclusion is that if you are a representative to you club and you are not able to answer such a simple question, what is even the point of asking you anything complicated, which I didn’t.
By the way, what are your qualifications to be xxxxxxxxx? You have now got me totally confused. Below conversation is the one we have had since the beginning of our exchange; Just for the record.( FB conversations have been erased and modified and I have been trapped there before).
You must understand that it is extremely important to have precise information on any subject matter before you draw conclusions, on any matter. Therefore I am quite worried about the rest of your story.
I notice you zapped me from your FB page, a little annoyed you are? It’s not a problem, as I did not ask to be there. The survival of a RARE breed is not a question of a popularity contest. It is based on solid facts and well documented proof of information accumulated and not “just” a question of “zapping” a breed and its breeders to replace it with another and winning “likes”.
Since you were at WDS 2011, you may enjoy these facts. I deal with facts, not heresay.
Out of the 56 Barbets present at WDS:
26 have PWD blood
25 IWS blood
22 SWD blood
Then I would wonder how you take those figures into consideration when your official club refers to a private database that is not official by ANY stretch of the imagination?
Last but not least at WDS 2011:
11 Barbets came from me (born here or my own dogs) out of 56. Which leads me to say that I am not just a new breeder on the block and that perhaps when deciding on certain points and how to publish them when they involve my line ( meaning me and those before me such as the Italian breeder, Mr Georgii and Mrs Pêtre), I ought to be consulted since I do communicate with them ( not many others do, do they. Do you?), don’t you think?
Isn’t it a matter of basic respect towards me and the breed I have been working with and on for 13 years along with the information I posess?
Give it a thought.
I fully intend to publish this matter on my site and on FB. It is just another example of incompetence, slander and destruction of our rare breed. Regardless of what an incompetent French breed club said, there are 2 main lines. A re-incarnated poodle x PWD one as there are still several examples alive today and the ones that have barbet blood in them going back to AT LEAST 1970.Regardless of what an ukase historian says.
The re-incarnated Barbet in 1980 is rare, ONLY because there are not many.
The Old line is going to be extinct and despite some working to cross the lines as fast as possible all of the sudden, the selection is still being made on the poodle type and not the griffon type.
Bottom line, it’s a question of clear communication, competences and facts, and last but not least: respect for the work done by people before us.
I look forward to your prompt reply. You know where to find me and you don’t even have to put your lips together and whistle: firstname.lastname@example.org
Have a nice Sunday.
Barbets en Bresse, France.
Elevage de la serve de la chapelle d’Alexandre since 2004 and not 2006!
Time not being on our side, it was a bit of a race to get Harz’s( di Barbochos Reiau de Prouvenco) dna. Poor dog was really up there in age. I will spare you the details of a Barbet living til age 17 as some love to claim. A sacrifice for his owner who refused to do anything but let him die naturally.I don’t know if I would/ could do what that poor lady went through out of love. He is shown here with Thelma.
Harz was Hercule’s brother and whether or not we could prove anything with his dna, it was just important to have it. We have it.
A certain group of people did their best to stop me from proceeding to get his blood. You never know…it could be dangerous to get to the truth.Their lovely letter is here:
It has been a race to get as much info as possible from all the old breeders in France. I think I have done well, considering!